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Re: Emacspeak with eSpeak losing speech on Vinux 4

I'll read this closer later, but I agree in general.
I really don't like GUI's.
I don't have mail and a browser working with emacspeak, but if ( and when ) I did, I'd totally ignore gnome, orca and …
On May 11, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:

> If I understand your setup and how our running emacs and emacspeak, I
> don't think gnome-orca is the issue. 
> From your description, you appear to be running emacs and emacspeak in
> Linux consoles and not under X. If that is the case, why run
> gnome-orca? 
> I run the gnome desktop. I have a key binding defined which will start
> emacs as a native GTK app i.e. not inside a terminal or a linux console.
> I have defined key bindings to move between virtual workspaces, where I
> tend to run individual apps. For example, in one, I will start a gnome
> terminal window with speech support from orca, in another emacs running
> emacspeak using either espeak (work machine) or ibmtts (home machine).
> In another virtual workspace, I have google-chrome running with
> chromevox. I move between the virtual workspaces with f11 and f12. The
> hardest part I had was getting the apps to default to opening maximised,
> so that they use the whole virtual workspace and I don't get issues with
> the mouse moving focus to the root window etc.
> I rarely use the Linux console. I don't run speakup etc. 
> For me, espeak under emacspeak is quite unstable. I turn off character
> echo and that helps, but find that espeak either crashes or gets 'stuck'
> repeating text or gets way behind a lot. I've just gotten use to the
> fact that espeak under emacspeak is not particularly good. However,
> espeak under speech-dispatcher and orca is rock solid for me, especially
> on systems that are all 64 bit and not mixed 64 and 32 bit. At work, I
> will often use speechd-el rather than emacspeak because it is much more
> stable with espeak than emacspeak is. 
> If you are starting X and speech-dispatcher and orca and then switching
> to a Linux virtual console with ctl+alt+f[1..6], then it is possible you
> will get instability as your really running two login sessions - one
> under X and one just under the console. I would either not boot into X
> and just run form the console (should be able to do that by changing the
> default run-level) or I would continue to boot into X and run emacs and
> emacspeak under X rather than switching to the console. It will take a
> little extra work to get this working well if you have absolutely no
> sight, but is quite possible.
> Tim
> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 23:12 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote:
>> Tim,
>> Sorry, I may have misunderstood your message. The last thing I would recommend is to run as root.
>> I was reporting something that I thought might lead to a better understanding of the problem.
>> I recently moved to ubuntu 12.10 and started to have these problems. I'm pretty sure I wasn't experiencing these problems with ubuntu 10.04.
>> Unless I misunderstood, you're having to restart espeak frequently, this doesn't seem to be a very stable situation.
>> Can you explain why we're seeing emacspeak and espeak crashing after  a couple of key strokes under a normal user and not seeing any kind of crashing under root?
>> I'm running ubuntu 12.10.
>> emacspeak 37.0
>> emacs 24.1.
>> I open a new terminal login with control alt f[1-6], then invoke emacspeak.
>> Actually, it's coming back to me now. I used to disable gnome by changing the run level for the login to 3 or something other than the level that brings up the guy. 
>> emacspeak and speak was rock solid after that.
>> I think gnome is messing things up.
>> I used to be able to do this in /etc/inittab, but that doesn't seem to be there anymore.
>> Thanks,
>> John
>> On May 10, 2013, at 10:02 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
>>> Turn it around the other way - what do you do which you cannot do as a
>>> normal user. Often, this just means having to make a few minor config
>>> changes, such as adding your normal user to a specific group. For
>>> example, on some systems, you may need to be a member of the audio group
>>> i order to use the audio device. 
>>> The difficulty here is that there are no set rules. It all depends on
>>> your distro and how they have set things up. What is generally true is
>>> that hardly anything other than software installation and low level
>>> actions should require root privileges. Needing to run lots of htings as
>>> root generally indicates a configuration problem. 
>>> Tim
>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 21:35 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote:
>>>> How can I tell if a normal user has sufficient privileges?
>>>> I used to do something under /dev/audio, but I can't remember what.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -j
>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
>>>>> I've never tried running as root with espeak or emacs, so can't comment
>>>>> on differences. Very bad idea to run as root and should not be
>>>>> necessary. Similar to always having your windows login running with
>>>>> admin privs. You will expose yourself to malware and virus issues
>>>>> (anyone who tells you Linux and OSX doesn't have malware or viruses is
>>>>> talking rubbish). 
>>>>> If you are seeing a difference between stability running as root
>>>>> compared to a normal user, it might be that the normal user does not
>>>>> have the necessary permissions to do things like use the real-time
>>>>> scheduler which pulseaudio needs. However, I've not seen linux systems
>>>>> having this problem for quite a few years now, so would be surprised. 
>>>>> I run both gnome orca and emacspeak with espeak on one system, gnome
>>>>> orca and emacspeak with outloud on another and emacspeak with just
>>>>> espeak on a 3rd system. All are 64 bit. I've not noticed any significant
>>>>> difference between the systems with respect to espeak. On all systems
>>>>> using espeak, espeak is extremely stable with orca and speech dispatcher
>>>>> and unstable with emacspeak. I also find espeak is very stable using
>>>>> speechd-el. 
>>>>> Tim
>>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 19:17 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote:
>>>>>> I see this too with espeak. It seems to go away when I run emacspeak with espeak under the root user.
>>>>>> I have gnome started with orca at boot up. Is gnome and orca interfering somehow with a non-root user's use of espeak?
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
>>>>>>> You can just use the dmesg command in a terminal. 
>>>>>>> I also see the regular loss of speech with espeak. I have never been
>>>>>>> able to track down the issue, though I tend to get distracted with other
>>>>>>> things when I try. I don't see this crashing with speechd or with espeak
>>>>>>> and speech-dispatcher generally. It is limited to the emacspeak espeak
>>>>>>> interface. 
>>>>>>> I find disabling character echo can help a bit. Otherwise, I've just
>>>>>>> gotten use to hitting C-e C-s to restart espeak when it stops
>>>>>>> responding. 
>>>>>>> I have noticed that I don't see this issue with the experiments I've
>>>>>>> done that don't use tcl as the interface language. So it could be that
>>>>>>> the problem is in the tcl layer, but this is just more guesswork.
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 11:50 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>>>>>>>> Christopher Chaltain <chaltain@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I don't see this file on this system. It's a Ubuntu based system.
>>>>>>>> Ubuntu keeps diverging from every other Linux distribution in a growing
>>>>>>>> variety of ways.
>>>>>>>> Try /var/log/syslog. I don't have an Ubuntu-based system so I'm guessing here.
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